Saturday, October 25, 2008
my thoughts (part 1)
Friday, October 24, 2008
Realism vs. Romanticism
I think that, because of Charles' stupidity, the depressing & unfortunate ending and the extreme contrast between the two main characters, Madame Bovary may be paralleling Flaubert's life as a writer. I feel that Flaubert envies "Emma" in the sense that he could never be a romantic and can only be a plain old realist. Maybe he wanted to be able to write like Bronte, to layer his writing with deeper language and more significant details. Instead, he stood by stupidly and in the end never could immerse himself in romantic prose, mirroring the end of the book. I may be totally off the mark, but that's one thing I feel Flaubert was trying to convey.
Thursday, October 23, 2008
Flaubert and his cynical attitude
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
someone help me.
true lauhgs
Emma's Reading
Emma doens't deserve love
emma is a dirty whore
Madams Bovary, Homais' God
In both novles the issues of God and Religion have come to light. For Jane it was a romantic lovely poetic thing, whereas Flaubert precieves Religion in a more realistic and senseable theme. When Monsieur Homais' goes into his tangent about Religion Flaubert's realistic preception of life truly shines through. For this reason I believe that Flaubert's writing is much more beautiful than Bronte's. The preception the M. Homias has on Religion somewhat mirrors mine, Religion is not something you can teach, Religion isn't something that should set boundries for your life. I believe that religion is something that should be used on those days when the light has burned out, the days that you've lost hope and faith in the world. This means that Religion comes from within yourself, "what lies before us and what lies behind us are nothing compared to what lies within us." I believe that if you teach a Religion if someone tells you how to have faith that faith becomes meaningless to you as a person. Flaubert accentuates this belief when M. Homais explains what religion is to him. M. Homais still believes that there is a divine creator, someone, male of female, what gave him a duty to uphold, I personally disagree with this fact but in 1857 when Madam Bovary was first published, the idea that someone didn't believe in going to church was somewhat tabu and unheard of.
"You can honor him just as well in the woods, in a field, or even contemplating the ethereal vault, like the ancients." To me this passage shows more than a realistic view on religion and life. To me this shows progress, it shows a pathway to religious tolerance, it shows a sence of future understanding and this is when Flaubert's realism really shines through. Besides the bluntly stated ideas, and the characters and through all of the discription and plot twist Flaubert is able to show realism through futuristic ideas. A realist looks beyond tomorrow and into the future before making a decision, a realist doesn't do something foolish in the face of love because he's in the face of love, a realist makes a decision based on real things events that are likely to happen. opptimism and pessimism don't come into the equation the only thing that a realist considers is how what he/she says or does is going to effect the here and now, this life.
Through M. Homais Flaubert proves that even things like religion and love can be approached in a realistic way. That while romance and religion are important, equally important is how you live your life not how you view your life. M. Homais doesn't view religion, he doesn't sit around and have someone tell him how to be religious, he doesn't channel his religion through another human, he experiances his own religion and he doesn't let someone live it for him, nor does he live it through someone else. Essentially Homais lives his own life in the here and now he doesn't look to someone else to do it for him and he doesn't experiance religion vicariously through someone else because he knows that, that isn't religion.
Sluts Don't Know What True Love Is
Emma and the real world
In the end, her struggle to be elitist she leaves her husband in deep debt and her daughter in her daughter in the poor working class. Ironically, Emma's efforts to be elite condem her daughter to a life of poverty.
Emma is a romantic woman stuck in a realist novel.
Flaubert's Views on Women
Madame Bovary: a lot of nothing
Slutty Emma Whips Charles into Submission
Emma carves Charles into a mere fragment of the man he once was. Consistently deceitfully neglecting Charles until he finally accepts Emma's mischievous ways. True love needs a strong sense of equillibrium to succeed. The difference in respect between Bovary and Charles is similar to that of a detainee at Guantanamo Bay and the interrogator questioning him.
The unhealthy relationship displayed between Bovary and Charles epitomizes the opposite of a successful relationship. In doing whatver she cares to, Emma uses and abuses Charles, finally forcing him into submission.
Emma vs. Jane
Romantic realism?
Her death is in its own way, Flaubert's final stab at the horrid creation of Romanticism. He uses death by arsenic, which, turns into a horrible clawing experience and disgusting examples with great gusto to show that he thinks Romanticism, which is embodied by madame Bovary throughout the book, should die, or at least come to an end. He's bitterness towards romanticism follows us and niggles at the corners of our minds through most of the book, however there are moments where it jumps out, like the death of Madame Bovary.
Unsatisfied Women
The Bov
Homais' Beliefs
Realist or Arrogant Elitist?
Flaubert would pride himself as the kind of author who holds up a mirror to the world, with no fancy descriptions or symbols, and yet in this passage his characters are discussing how they love the Romantic style of writing. They "loathe...the kind of thing you find in real life." In this passage he seems to contradict everything he stands for.
I have talked with a couple people about this passage, and have decide that it could mean two things. Flaubert was either "holding up his mirror" and showing how people tend to enjoy these romantic novels much more than those that he feels are better representations of what literature should do, or he was poking fun at the unreal ideals that Romantic novels, even those such as Jane Eyre where a plain woman was able to find true love on her terms, and how they influence the lives of those who read them.
Emma is a perfect example of this because she is constantly looking for "true love" "true romance" but she can never find it because to Flaubert...it doesn't exist.
In my opinion Flaubert is entertaining, but in his quest to seperate himself from the novel, he inserted an arrogant, elitist tone, and dragged on in descriptions that were very pointless as he was telling you at the same time that these details meant nothing and stood for nothing. In doing so he pushed me away rather engrossing me in what would have been a tragic and amazing story. Maybe this was his goal, maybe it wasn't, either way, the distance did help me find humor in some of the "tragic" scenes, like Charles's death and even Emma's. She thought she was going to acheive some level of "romanticism" in life and kill herself, and instead she dies a horribly painful death.
Slut!!!!!
Realistic?
I haven't yet finished Madam Bovary, so I cannot say that what I have read so far holds true throughout the entire book, but I can say that from the moment I read the opening sentence to the moment my eyes shut unwillingly each night, I was not satisfied.
Yep.
Nates thoughts
Emma Gets Around
When Charles finds the letters between Emma and Rodolphe, he stays calm and thinks that as long as she was happy it was ok. Any other person would be mad and burn them and everything else that she owned. Charles is to nice of a guy and doesn't realize anything about her until she is dead. If he wasn't so involved in his work he might have time for his lady.
I think it is funny when she dies, because she starts screaming, and talking about a blind man, she is messed up in the head, then she dies and everyone continues life
Madame Bovary!
Madame Bovary
Who is gustav flaubert?
Let no one be blamed...
Emma's death is in some ways quite funny. She begins eating the Arsenic and then she waits. She thinks it isn't so bad, until the vomiting begins. From there it just gets worse and poor Charles is clung to the side of her bed, hoping that she will be well again. She continues to groan and pull at the sheets, but even while she is in this horrible pain she still lets out a little smile. Emma had gotten into serious debt, but no one was there to help. Rodolphe had refused to help and therefore Emma lost hope. She begins the suicide and finds that the true help was with Charles. He takes care of her and brings in a priest, but just as they think she is being saved things begin to turn again. Emma thinking she has been saved gives the most passionate kiss to the Man-God. She asks for the mirror to see herself and the pain begins again. Deep breaths, lose of air, and continuous pain. Finally it is over and she is Gone. It's a strange death and although she enjoys it and is thinking she is doing the right thing; she still tries so hard to hold onto the last glimpse of a second chance.
Flaubert's Romanticism
I found the most interesting aspect of Flaubert’s novel his sheer bitterness towards romanticism. There are times when he seems to really put his heart into it, like Emma’s longings for story-book-true-love or Charles’ attempt at burring her in a truly royal fashion, but by the end of the book it’s a failed (albeit intentional failure) endeavor. In fact, it’s rather funny. How perfectly Flaubert sets up Emma’s hopeful dreams and puerile desires only to have them come crashing down around her. It’s actually quite comical that in an attempt to pass away peacefully in her sleep, she dies violently and hideously (what with the black bile). Even Charles, who in a last attempt at completing Emma’s romantic desires, buries her in three coffins with a green velvet shroud. Yet, once again, Flaubert’s realism seems to spit upon romanticism in Charles’ comical death when his daughter pushes over his stiff cadaver in the arbor.
After reading Madame Bovary, I find myself almost disgusted with the extravagant tailing of romanticism and proud of the pessimistic styles of realism. I’m still fond of Romanticism, but Realism might be slightly more entertaining.
A Small Conception of Love
Emma's Distorted Love
Madame Bovary
I must admit, I find noting humorous about this book. Madame Bovary represents every quality a person could poses that irks me. I wasn't even able to laugh when she died, I was just rejoicing.
Emma makes my blood boil. This anger just heightens when Leon and Rodolphe step onto the stage. What bothers me most about this selfish woman is that she truly makes every excuse to be miserable when in actuallity, if she made the slightest bit of an effort, she could find something to be exuberant about! Instead, she dines on the horrible "woe is me" cousine and it poisons her slowly. But because she isn't vomitting blood she doesn't realize that the fault is her own! She could have had a perfectly happy life with Charles, but she didn't even look for the sunshine.
And the way she completely disregards her Berthe...this pisses me off. This child isn't even mentioned for half of the book while she is alive! How can a mother completely just go off and indulge in trite splendor while her BABY is at home with her wet nurse. I understand babysitting and parents who just need a night out, but EVERY FREAKIN' THURSDAY??? That's truly not the worst of it. That one scene where she watches Felicite and Berthe from the window and rushes out to shower her with affection just makes me want to slap that *****!!! She has Berthe every DAY of her life, and she is just now realizing how wonderful of a blessing this is? Actually, she doesn't even realize that! She just dotes upon her to make herself feel loved. It makes me sick to my stomach.
As for her seductive ways, with Leon, that stupid cow. Rodolphe doesn't love her, and she doesn't love Leon. She is incapable of actual love. What is going on here is an abundance of lust that cannot last. Sure, it feels like they have fallen passionately in love because of this fantasy that Emma engages in, but it doesn't last. The part in Rodolphes' letter for Berthe to pray for him makes me want to punch a wall. A brick wall. How can he be so incredibly hideous? How can he ask for the prays from someone who he doesn't give a second thought to? This is selfish and arrogant, and he is just selling himself. Whereas Leon, I feel sorry for the guy. he didn't need to be taken advantage of like that, but then again, Emma was a married woman. What did he think he was getting himself into? The ingorant fool...who I hate just as much as Emma and Rodolphe.
Arsenic? Gimme a break. It's not gonna make me feel bad for her. Suicide? PA-LEASE! Suicide is the most selfish thing Emma has done. Holy Cow, the King was gonna reposses her house and she couldn't deal with losing all of her possesions? How ironic though, that she is so worldly, but in the end, she has nothing in this world. It makes me so angry that she doesn't 'fes up and tell it to Charles straight. SHE DIES WHILE HE IS STILL IN LOVE WITH HER!!!!!!!!!!! It makes me shudder to see how she treated Charles with such an evil heart. He was devouted to her and she let him be decieved until how long? Quite some time after the death, he finally finds the letters.... The fact that the more she cheats on her husband the more she dotes on him with affection, making him fall in love with her more. Why didn't she just kill him and put him out of his misery so she could go frolic around in this life and then suffer her right misery in HELL. She didn't need to make Charles suffer half as much as she did. AND the entire scene of her death is embelished with the Preist and the idea of 'repenting' and blah blah freakity blah!!! SHE FEELS NO REMORSE FOR HER SINS, SHE ISN'T GONNA DIE HAPPY! PLUS! SHE FREAKIN' COMMITTED SUICIDE, WHICH IS HORRIBLE AND GROSS!
She dies, and sure, she is beautiful on the outside, but that black vile that spills from her mouth and stains her wedding dress shows what she really is. Black on the inside.
The one thing I did love about this novel was the fighting between the Preist and the Apothecary. It was pretty funny to watch them go at it and see the true political and religious views of that time period and see how they sort of reflect what can still be found in instances around the world. No, it is not as commonplace, but is still happens. I really love when they are argueing about reading and the apothecary says that the Bible is just as racy as some modern literature and then the Priest says something like: yes, but the Catholics do not advocate reading the Bible. It was pretty funny.
That, all in all, is what I thought of Gustave Flaubert on a pretty first-reaction basis. I can't wait to read your posts and get more into the symbolism, and style, and what Flaubert is actually trying to say. :)
Arsenic yum
i saw it coming from the beginning
When Emma Died...
Her fantasy life quickly falls apart and rather than trying to fix it, she chooses to "romantically" call an end to it. Much like in the romantic "Romeo & Juliette" she takes her life, rather dying than living a non romantic life. Emma is a selfish woman, living in world that does not mirror her novels. Emma cannot grasp reality, and thus is constantly disappointed with her less than perfect life. She leaves her husband and child to not only mourn her loss, but also pay back the debt she left them.
My Overall Opinion
Poor Charles, he desereves better, I wish he doesn't kill himself at the end but rather, embraces the fact that Emma is gone and he can finally be independent. I want him to get ANGRY not sad. He should have sold all of Emma's crap--then he would be out debt and able to move back to Yonville with Bertha and his mother and father in law, and be surrounded by people who love and respect him.
I am glad Emma Killed herself
Madame Bovary or just a failure?
Charles could have what he was talked up to be because he was a promising doctor with steady work and therefore steady pay. Although he is second class, this is not made him a dark and cold man. He has his heart crushed when his mother coaxes him into the arranged marriage to an old widow whom was supposed to have money. After she dies, Charles is upset, but Emma is there to confort him. This additionally goes south after his second marriage because they are not close.
Furthermore, all the work and traveling that Charles does makes it hard to live the happy family life that is a promised dream following wedding. Lastly, the other part that does not help thier relationship, is Emma's drive to be first class. She wants so so badly to always be invited to those balls, and be able to afford fancy gowns, and be courted by young men while still being in rich marriage. The cherry on top, is her suicide. This is what she deserved in my opinion because of how she treated those surrounding her. Almost karma and what goes around comes around.
Suicide!
How to Dig a Hole
To achieve these high standards of life and social grace upon which she has set herself she looks to affairs. They leave her nothing but grief and a poor conscience. She seeks an abundance of material luxuries. They leave her hopelessly in debt. She wants a comfortable home life, yet she isolates her good husband and daughter with her web of lies and misplaced loves. She slowly digs her hole so deep that there is but one level remaining. In the final parallel with the Warner Bros. Gangster films, the conflicted protagonist dies and long and dramatic death, the only way that justice could be served. Swimin with the Fishies.
Flaubert is on a quest to embarrass the concept of Romanticism through Emma. When she marries Charles, she is like a teenage girl coming into freshman year; her naïveté leads her blindly into disappointment. Flaubert uses her situation in the beginning of the novel to depict the disappointment of the Romantic ideal, and the juvenile quest to obtain it. She is trying to hack her way into a fairytale, while the barrier between her and her goal is impenetrable. After just one lavish night, she reminisces on her days of “skimming cream with her finger from the earthenware milk pans in the dairy” as an illustration of “her past life”; and then is humbled into reality when she climbs into bed “against a sleeping Charles” (47,49). Poor girl! She has married this incredibly simple and stupid man and cannot look upon her life without the pretense that she should be one of these fancy women in the luxurious homes. She leaves the ball not on a carriage, but on her horse with Charles, who has a cardboard box between his legs. What a bummer reality check. Still when she gets home she barks orders and fires the poor servant girl and packs away her gown and shoes like she is better than the life that she is leading. Any hole through which Emma can see a way into her Romantic façade she has tries to squeeze through. It is depressing.
Destruction of Charles
One person who seemed to see this greed from Emma was Madame Bovary Senior. She always looked down on Emma, always scrutinizing her and making her look bad. Charles would side with his mother, until it came to Emma. This shown affection and love was sad. He looked past everything that was true, whether he knew it or not.
People watching knew something was wrong. The clerk who Emma purchased all of her gifts and trunks from knows something is not right. Emma doesn't seem to care what anyone else thinks. I dont think she wanted anyone to find out about the affairs but she was also so lost up in her love for other men I believe that if someone (Charles) had found out it would have made it easier for her, she finally could have broken away from what she hated; her life.
One Hundred Years of Solitude Now Has a Contender
Yeah, okay, so that might have been a little over the top, but seriously: I read to gain a higher intelligence, a deeper respect for writers, and a new perspective of the world. I do not read to turn my brain into goo.
Madame Bovary
Death Scene
In fact, reading the other 301 pages made me want to join Emma, instead of suffering through page after page.
Liar Liar!
Not to mention how she puts all her family in debt, not giving her child the education she and Charles had wanted for Berthe. She is a selfish women. Perhaps the saddest part of the book (in my opinion) was when Charles was dreaming of Berthe, and how she would grow older and the family would find her a suitor and so on and so forth. However, as Charles lays in bed with his wife, her dreams are of running off with another man! Emma is a prostitute for love. She lies and cheats, not a quality women in my belief.
Is Emma to blame for her misfortunes?
Religion vs. Knowledge.
Emma Sucks
I found this novel pretty entertaining and funny. I believe my favorite character was the pharmacist. He gets all that he could wish for while Emma and Charles end up in the grave. The whole description of Emma's death is hillarious. Especially when the description of the black liquid dripping from her mouth comes up. Although I found much of this book humorous, a more prevalent feeling for me was anger. I couldn't stand Emma and her actions. I constantly felt bad for Charles, getting two terrible wives and having his life ruined by a complete bitch! Emma sucks.